Vibration when any thrust is applied

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Vibration when any thrust is applied

Postby Vern Wagner » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:48 pm

Hi, my Helix developed a vibration that never changes with speed, I replaced the rollers and clutch. At idle she is smooth. I did find that I had been driving with a loose axle nut which I tightened. The only other coincidence that I slightly recall is that I had been also driving around without the muffler improperly attached ( wasn't attached at the rear bolt) . I re-bolted it on and this might have been when the vibration began. I don't see the connection between the muffler being firmly bolted on and increased vibration. Everything seems to vibrate, front, handlebars, etc. Never increases, never decreases. ???? I have new tires, could the wheels need balancing? Also new carb and CDI
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Re: Vibration when any thrust is applied

Postby Rafe Hollister » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:01 pm

What about the motor/ swing arm mounts? Other than that, I would say wheel balance, but that should change with speed. Could you have a bent wheel or bad wheel bearing? One more guess, crankshaft bearing?
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Re: Vibration when any thrust is applied

Postby charlie55 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:03 pm

It seems to me that if it were anything that's cyclic, the vibration would vary with the speed. Since you mentioned front end and handlebars, check your front shocks. Perhaps also loose steering head bearings. While sitting on it with the motor off, grab the handlebars and see if you can move them fore and aft or side to side at all. If you can test with the weight off the front wheel, that would be better.
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Re: Vibration when any thrust is applied

Postby zozman » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:46 am

When you people post issues with your bikes, get in the habit of describing what year Helix and the miles please. Did Honda work on it or did you work on it?

If the front wheel bearings are shot, that would be a grinding rotational sound. If your motor mounts are bad, your rear tire assembly would swing laterally. If someone put the rear tire on wrong with the spacers switched, that would eventually wear out the swing arm bearing. The clutch assembly just rotates on an axle shaft. That wouldn't vibrate unless all the bearings are destroyed. If someone put the variator face cock-eyed that would eventually destroy the splines and make noise. Go back and revisit the muffler assembly.

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Re: Vibration when any thrust is applied

Postby dano60 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:54 am

My 2007 with 42k miles has the same problem. Started last fall. Took it to the honda mechanic that I know and trust and he checked everything out and couldn't find anything. ($238 for 2 hrs labor). He said the next step is to replace motor mounts. This would be way too costly at the dealer since the engine has to be removed. I still ride it and somedays it dosen't vibrate as bad as others. So I'll have to decide whether to sell it as is or attempt the repair myself, which I'm not too inclined to do after looking at the procedure in the repair manual.
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Re: Vibration when any thrust is applied

Postby dano60 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:06 am

Also failed to mention,the rear wheel assembly is tight with no lateral movement as zoz mentioned. So I'm not 100% sure the engine mounts are the problem.

Dan
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Re: Vibration when any thrust is applied

Postby zozman » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:59 am

dano60 wrote:Also failed to mention,the rear wheel assembly is tight with no lateral movement as zoz mentioned. So I'm not 100% sure the engine mounts are the problem. Dan


Hi Dan. The problem you are seeing is what mechanics go through most of the time on intermittent or disguised vibrations. It can take hours of uncompensated time to find nothing. Even some of the noises and/or vibrations are a composite of issues. Some of these things are what happens when you get 42K miles on a scooter.

I have removed the engine from a CH 250 which is similar to the CN 250. It's not that difficult although numerous disconnects are required. No special tools are needed.

If your engine does not move laterally, it's probably not the engine mounts. Usually, those just squeek as the o-rings dry and then they disintegrate.

The focus of my posts is to enlighten and hope owners can do most of the maintenance on their scooters themselves without paying $119/hour labor at a shop.


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Re: Vibration when any thrust is applied

Postby dano60 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:11 pm

Thanks zoz, I agree it could be a variety of issues and my plan is to approach one component at a time using the service manual, until hopefully I hit on the right fix, or fixes..
Thanks for your helpful reply.

Dan
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Re: Vibration when any thrust is applied

Postby Rafe Hollister » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:37 pm

I recently installed an air shock with 4 way adjustable damping. My 94 Helix (23,800 miles) used to vibrate around 60mph but smoothed out a few mph later. I here most do this. But now it no longer does this, smooth all the time. Could the stock shock springs be having a harmonic vibration? (someone needs to set a gopro to check this!) I noticed the the shock I took off had the rubber in the eye slightly deformed so daylight was visible betwen the inner steel bushing and the ID of the rubber.
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Re: Vibration when any thrust is applied

Postby dano60 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:34 am

Update. Last week I decided to proceed with engine removal and installing new bushings and all rubber parts on my '07 HELIX. I also installed a new belt, spark plug and carb by starter. I used the Helix repair manual as a guide and although some steps were somewhat difficult due to the location of the parts needing removal, I managed to get everything off and the engine out and back in without too much difficulty. The good part is it didn't vibrate any on a 10 mile test drive. I was thrilled to say the least.
I'm not sure if it was the frame bushings or the new belt that corrected the problem. I used the Gates belt that zoz recommended and strongly feel that it might have been the old belt that was causing the vibration, as after each ride it always had a strong burnt rubber smell. Going to try to ride again to day to
make sure everything is still ok. One good side benefit was that I was able to give the engine a good cleaning. It had lots of gunk build up on it and the frame.
Thanks to everyone for your advise and I really appreciate this site for all the GOOD Helix Info.

Dano
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Re: Vibration when any thrust is applied

Postby zozman » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:23 pm

Thank you for posting your mechanical intervention and results. It helps other people with similar issues.

Just think-you got to know your Helix and were able to correct some issues without exhorbitant service rates. That Gates 6012 is a very good belt for the money.

Good job!

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Re: Vibration when any thrust is applied

Postby dano60 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:11 am

Thanks zoz, it was definitely a learning experience and well worth the effort.
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