Variator

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Variator

Postby fixer311 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:32 pm

I'm getting a rattling sound in my transmission at speed after installing Dr. Pulley Sliders. I installed them as per instructions, although I thought it a bit odd that there is nothing putting any tension on them to hold them it place. Are the Sliders supposed to rattle? Any other ideas?
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Postby Cubey » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:26 pm

They are supposed to be loose and moving around. That's why they are called rollers... they are supposed to roll around in the variator. The sliding ones must somehow also move or the variator and clutch wouldn't work.

I spoke with a guy who sells Helix/scooter accessories at a rally recently and he told me that the sliders are a total waste of money. I can't vouch for the statement but the way he explained it made sense.

I will be going with OEM rollers since you can't go wrong with Honda's design and specs.
Last edited by Cubey on Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Variator

Postby fixer311 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:28 pm

Are the Slider supposed to make a rattle?
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Postby Cubey » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:29 pm

I don't know, try maybe asking the store you bought them from.
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Postby fixer311 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:35 pm

Thanks for trying.
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Postby Dennis D » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:02 pm

Don't rattle for me at all. BTW, next time you have a variator apart, examine it closely and figure how it works. Rollers are called that simply because they're round. They don't roll, they slide. That's why they start developing flat spots almost immediately.

The Dr Pulley weights work fine for me. went a few grams lighter than stock. No problems, no rattles. I did have some rattles(slaps) with the first belt I installed. Removed it after around 100 miles and replaced it with a kevlar belt. No slips, no slaps, and my Helix accelerates much more smoothly from stopped to top speed than with the stock weights(yeah, I bought and installed a set of them first, just to compare).

I did put just a bit of white lithium grease on the Dr Pulley sliders, because Honda variators are designed with the rollers pretty much packed in grease(read the manual). I used very little though, just a touch of grese on each one, since the Dr Pulley weights are already teflon coated.
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Grease

Postby fixer311 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:43 pm

Ok I tried to grease my Sliders and the rattling went away but now I've got grease all over my case, belt slipping and just a mess. Now what?
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Postby Dennis D » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:37 pm

Oops. The grease is supposed to stay in the little compartments the weights are in. Hope you didn't use a type of grease that melts as the variator heats up. I didn't use anything close to the(almost an) ounce that I put on the stock rollers, but just lightly coated each slider. If you got it on the belt, not sure how you can get it off.

I ran with stock rollers and the recommended amount of grease for just a bit over a hundred miles to compare new rollers against the Dr Pulley 21.5g sliders, which I installed next and have been using now for 4000 miles. I used wheel bearing grease for the rollers, because I knew it wouldn't melt and run out, and looked pretty much like what was in there when I took everything apart and replaced the original belt and rolers. The rollers packed in grease, worked pretty much the way it did before the original belt disintegrated, with a couple "dead spots" in the acceleration from a start up to top speed.

Smoother and quicker off the line with the Dr Pulley sliders, and reliably has a top speed of 70 or sometimes more. Fastest I've hit on a level stretch of pavement is 74. Downhill, 79 mph. Speedometer is accurate within 1 mph or hour or less. (Reads 1 mph faster than actual between 58 and 62 mph only). I think it may be the most accurate speedometer I've ever had, but have only had GPS to know for sure for the last several years. However my brother was a cop for 30 years, and I did get to radar check my speed(at one speed) occasionally over the years.
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Postby zozman » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:35 pm

The Tech Tip I wrote several years ago talks about how to do the variator maintenance. Whether you use round rollers or flat ones that slide, all will wear eventually due to friction. You can pay little for rollers or alot. Most of the OEM Honda rollers start to develop flat spots at 3K miles. Some have appreciable wear with detrimental performance at 6K. The most miles on the Honda rollers prior to a change that I have seen in my shop were 21K and they were bad. Real bad. I recommend the cheap OEM rollers from Honda because, regardless, you'll have to change whatever type you use sooner or later. I recommend using a good lithium wheel bearing grease and slightly coating the rollers and a new o-ring on the back side of the variator housing. Slinging grease on the top of the case and under the belt is a sign too much grease was used. I have used NO grease in a variator and, other than the slight increased noise, little difference in wear was observed. The end.

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Postby Dennis D » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:41 pm

The nearly an ounce I referred to when I did the stock rollers, is the total for all rollers. Did seem like an awfully lot, but that's what the Helix manual recommends. Very messy to clean up when you have to change belt and rollers. That's why I just lightly coated the teflon sliders.
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Postby Alarmnbob » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:37 am

I run Dr Pulleys and use no grease! It is not required with Dr Pulley's slide weights. I run a Malossi Variator and NO GREASE. I believe I am running 19 gram weights. It has the best acceleration out there. I run them in my Gila monster too. I have not got all the kinks worked out yet. I will submit pictures when i have it running right. The Gila Monster (Helamonster) is a Helix powered with a 500cc Jetski twin cylinder, 2 stroke motor! I got a pipe on each side of the bike! i will unveil it with a video when i get it right.
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Postby bear » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:26 am

Alarmnbob wrote:I run Dr Pulleys and use no grease! It is not required with Dr Pulley's slide weights. I run a Malossi Variator and NO GREASE. I believe I am running 19 gram weights. It has the best acceleration out there. I run them in my Gila monster too. I have not got all the kinks worked out yet. I will submit pictures when i have it running right. The Gila Monster (Helamonster) is a Helix powered with a 500cc Jetski twin cylinder, 2 stroke motor! I got a pipe on each side of the bike! i will unveil it with a video when i get it right.


No grease, I'll keep that in mind for when the time comes. As far as the 19 gram weights, I'm curious how much you lost (if any) on the top end?

And I really look forward to hearing more (and seeing) about your Gila Monster :D

Thanks,

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Postby alexkram » Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:40 pm

a 500cc 2 stroke twin Helix?!?!?!?!?

I hope it is basically stock looking. One thing that happens to me a lot is when I'm at a light with another motorcycle, they usually go blasting off the line full throttle (insecurity?). It would be funny to pass them on a scooter when they are full throttle.

You must have some amazing fabrication ability to be able to put a boat motor into a scooter. That will about quadruple the stock power output. It will get terrible mpg but lots of smiles per gallon.
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Postby Cruiser » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:09 pm

Alarmnbob wrote:I run Dr Pulleys and use no grease! It is not required with Dr Pulley's slide weights. I run a Malossi Variator and NO GREASE. I believe I am running 19 gram weights. It has the best acceleration out there. I run them in my Gila monster too. I have not got all the kinks worked out yet. I will submit pictures when i have it running right. The Gila Monster (Helamonster) is a Helix powered with a 500cc Jetski twin cylinder, 2 stroke motor! I got a pipe on each side of the bike! i will unveil it with a video when i get it right.

Did you think to take pictures during the building of it?
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Postby Dennis D » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:50 pm

alexkram wrote:a 500cc 2 stroke twin Helix?!?!?!?!?

I hope it is basically stock looking. One thing that happens to me a lot is when I'm at a light with another motorcycle, they usually go blasting off the line full throttle (insecurity?). It would be funny to pass them on a scooter when they are full throttle.



Generally when the light changes they(Harleys and cruisers) go blasting past me.... only after I beat them across the intersection. Or else they stay a respectable distance back until I get up to cruising speed.
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